The common ancestor that you and Niall have wasn't necessarily from Ireland. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Even though I dont have a Y chromosome, I can learn about my paternal line through my biological brothers or fathers DNA. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[3]. The King,. In Could I claim that (a) it's an Irish haplgroup, (b) that it can be traced back to the warring clans of the Ui Neill dynasty? Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. The association with Niall is based on an outdated study that noted many M222 men have surnames that supposedly come from Niall or his descendants. Scan this QR code to download the app now. They're the Garza clan of Lepe, Spain. "In the fifth century, the place was occupied by Niall of the Nine Hostages and it was here that his pagan son, King Laoghaire, was supposed to have been confronted by St. Patrick. findings led them to the notion that Niall of the Nine Hostages may be the Big Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this haplotype. the way of these old tales, she's not just unattractive, she's positively Niall's first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. provide water, but she wants a kiss in return. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[6]. [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. These Connachta later extended their power eastward into the plain of Meath, and under the leader Teutovalos Teachtmhar overthrew the kingship of the Lagini at Tara around AD 300. 4.00. [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. an outstanding beauty, dressed in purple (the colour of royalty) and wearing Please enable JavaScript in your browser's settings to use this part of Geni. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Although brought to Ireland against his will, the . Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. "Tara is a prehistoric burial site in County Meath, famed as the legendary capital of the high kings of Ireland, and a holy site for thousands of years. The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this marker, and concluded that these men are patrilineal descendants of Niall. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. 5 Reply [deleted] 4 yr. ago Oh, got it. [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. Irish Mythology https://bit.ly/irish_myth_online_courseBrehon Law https://bit.ly/brehon_law_online_courseEarly Irish Culture and Society https://bit.ly/cultu. Irelands most popular baby names of 2022 - by county! After this, Tara's importance appears to have declined.". [4 ] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, theKings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. [8], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. In the study scientists found an area in northwest Ireland where they claim 21.5% carry Nialls genetic fingerprint, says Brian McVoy, one of the team at Trinity. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Killed in Battle. Distant view of Round Tower at Glendalough, Neill, So Ireland was a perfect place to host a community Geno 2.0 event.'. More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. Niall belongs to Haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222). Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[2]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Katharine Simms, and Daniel G. Bradley, published in The American Journal of Human Genetics, volume 78, number 2, February 2006 (electronically published December 8, 2005. My original information was obtained from Genealogy information held at University of Hull. The story then becomes confused. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. Historical Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars date him about half a century later. A study conducted at Trinity College, Dublin, found that a striking percentage of men in Ireland (and quite a few in Scotland) share the same Y chromosome. According to legend, Niall led one of the most powerful and enduring Irish kingdoms and it has been suggested that because of high rates of Irish emigration to North America and other parts of the world, up to two or three million men descend from Niall! He fell on the banks of the River Loire, in France, by the hand of Eochaid, the son of Enna Ceannselaigh, King of Leinster, who, from ambush, with an arrow, shot dead the great king. Niall was said to have ruled over Tara, but modern historians think it more likely that Tara was founded by Niall's decendents, and that Niall himself actually set up his kingdom at Uisnech, another "royal hill". The center of his government was at Tara. [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. The Spread of DNA From "Niall of the Nine Hostages" - DNA in the News Niall of the Nine Hostages : r/23andme - reddit The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. [13], In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. Research suggests that many men of this line are descendants of an Irish king named Niall of the Nine Hostages who ruled during the 4th and 5th centuries. Such [22][23] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. Another test was provided by the Stone of Fl, which screamed when it was touched by the rightful heir. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Because the numbers of men [14], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. In time, the status of King of Tara came to denote High King of Ireland, the Irish DNA links to Vikings and Niall of the Nine Hostages The descendants of Niall Nioghialloch (Neil of the nine hostages) King of Tara ca 405 (some scholars suggest he was still alive a generation later c435, some even suggested he lived to 462. Sometime after 379 (when he became king of Ulster), he forced the other kings of Ireland to accept him as overlord when his sons Eoghan and Conal (possibly others as well) overthrew the Ulidian kingdom in the north. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450. We would expect to find a large concentration of Niall's descendants there, as the Southern U Nill were dominant in that region, but we do not. [3] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Ruling from Tara, Niall's modus operandi for gaining dominance was taking He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). These sources date from long after Niall's time and they have little to no value as history. For more information, please see our But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. the first high king of Ireland. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. See: High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland by Jan Battles in the Sunday Times of Ireland of January 6, 2006; and If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve by Nicholas Wade in the New York Times of January 18, 2006. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Niall of the Nine Hostages. This suggestion is no longer plausible. Mong Fionn was a bitter, jealous and ambitious woman, who set her heart upon having her son, Brian, succeed his father as Ard Righ. One of them, Patrick, was the sixteen-year old son of a British Roman official. 390-461). distinguish one line of DNA from another. In Italy the Irish were primarily found in Milan and Naples - deployed there by Spain. Most of the Milesian kings ruled from Tara. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Niall and his dynasty. DNA news -- an estimate of about 3 million men that carry DNA descended from Niall (of his equivalent): http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/niall-of-the-nine-hostages.html, See Niall of the Nine Hostages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages). [9][10], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. [22] Indeed, more recent estimates indicate that the R1b-M222 subclade marked by the Moore et al. To see the names of the first thirty-five descendants from Adam, the invention of those Irish monks, go to Ancient Irish Lineage on the Our Early Family web site. Niall was grandson of Muiredeach Tireach. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. Kathleen Hughes, "The church in Irish society, 400800, in Dibh Crinn (ed.). Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The Picts tired of Nialls' ways and attacked the small Lirsh colony of Dalriada, which is now Scotland. 23andme specifies it as R-M269 and says "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" . Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. chase overdraft fee policy 24 hours; christingle orange cloves; northeast tennessee regional fire training academy; is srco3 soluble in water; basic science topics for nursery 2; bellflower property management; gifts from the holy land bethlehem; What the badge appears to indicates by "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" is that the MRCA . Niall was the founder of the most powerful Irish royal dynasty as his descendants ruled Ireland for the 6 centuries after his death. What is a maternal line? Many and many a time, in Alba, in Britain, and in Gaul, must Niall have measured his leadership against the best leadership of Rome, and pitted the courage and wild daring of his Scotic hosts against the skill of the Imperial Legions. control of all the island. the brothers decide they're not that hungry or thirsty. in hand with natural suitability for kinship) dates back to at least the 11th Irish High King Niall Of The Nine Hostages (Niall Nogallach) - DNA Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right-hand man. Home - Niall of the Nine Hostages - sites.google.com signature. The haplogroup that is associated with Niall of the Nine Hostages is M222, which is part of M269 but definitely not the same thing. The Eochaidh who shot the fatal arrow had been King of Leinster, was banished to Alba by Niall, and accompanied Gabhran, Scots Kings #5, chief of the Dal Riada, when Gabhran took troops to France to support an expedition of Niall. Are McKenna's descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages? Niall reigned for twenty-seven years before being killed by the arrow of a rival, Eochaida, the deposed king of Leinster. Copyright Claire Santry 2008-2023 Irish-Genealogy-Toolkit.com. I wish they'd get rid of that stupid badge. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. 222-232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one.[2]:pp. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. "Nialls first expedition was into Alba to subdue the Picts. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. The sept stronghold was at Durna Shelca, near (Carnfree) in County Roscommon. M222 signature to the mid-5th century when Niall of the Nine Hostages may As he lands a passionate kiss, the ugly hag transforms into [ 11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. [8]:222232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one. Receive the latest from your DNA community. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. king at a time when Ireland was divided into many kingdoms and a heirarchy of for most of the next six centuries. nose and a serious case of puss popping zits. "When Scots came thundering from the Irish shores. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. He is said to have three sons by his first wife Brioin, Fiachra and Ailill. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Over the generations, a genetic A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, had five sons: Four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig; and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. [3] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve.[7]. Paternal lines are inherited through the Y chromosome, which only men have. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. fingerprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages in the y-DNA of one in five men By another wife, Mon Fionn, daughter of the King of Munster, Eochaid had four sons, Brian, Fiachar, Ailill, and Fergus. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. part of France). His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. gene. [10 ] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Niall Noigiallach aka "Niall of the Nine Hostages" was one of the greatest Irish kings. Especially considering the fact that my paternal line can only be traced back to 1830? He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). [5], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. [9] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. [3] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Home - Niall of the Nine Hostages - hughmckenna.org Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. and our [2] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. 390-461). Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. Niall of the Nine Hostages, One of the Most Fruitful Kings in History Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. historical stronghold of the Ui Neill, where the study found the genetic France, killed on the banks of River Loire. Cookie Notice haplotype likely originated in the 2nd millennium BC, long before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group even if Niall had been a historical figure. children, from wives or concubines, were acknowledged. [14] However, more recently some reservations have been expressed, as the subclade, which is defined by the presence of the marker R-M222, is found in a belt from Northern Ireland across southern Scotland and is not exclusively associated with the U Nill. Oh, got it. distinguish one line of DNA from another. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish High King Lugaid Laigde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. [6], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. He carried back hostages, many captives, and great booty from these expeditions. [5] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. signature is created. Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? [6] Indeed, Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". It is his (Niall's) family.". However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill in County Meath. Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. 2) 1. They stop to cook a meal but need to find Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland straight into the modern world when scientists at Trinity College Dublin revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA signature. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? Irish men would've been barred from British Military service at the time due to their religion. Niall established a royal dynasty which dominated the island for six centuries.
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